EHeavenlyGads: A fascinating question, Bob. I have no idea if a link between modern fertility methods have been studied in the Autism research. As far as my knowledge on the subject goes, the vast majority of opinions, whether based upon qualified large-pool research or not, is in a belief that certain carriers of vaccines may be a culprit. But you were spot-on about my correlations regarding prematurity.

Please advise if you should run across such research and happen to remember my site, and I shall do the same and post here should I find same.

If you REALLY need to place the blame, I feel should be at the feet of the fertility treatment clinics.

I feel that when this happens as much as it has in the past year, then we need to take a harder look at what is happening inside these clinics. Instead of saying it is a miracle, (which undoubtedly this is for the families who had been trying to concieve for so long.) But maybe we’d better look at it as a form of medical malpractice. In my book, that is EXACTLY what it is.

There is just no way that a doctor should even consider asking the family to terminate ANY of those fetuses. My sister-in-law went to the same clinic that the Masche’s did but….and here is the big but…..her IVF treatments they (the parents to be and the doctors) agreed to inseminate only three eggs at a time. It was an expensive few years for them, but a decision that my brother and his wife could live with. As I have read here and from other accounts, the Masche’s miracle was basically a freak accident, the doctors and staff not knowing that all the eggs were viable. Why are we getting upset at the families then, for not being able to choose which child to terminate and which one not to? This was something that the health clinic should have been more careful of. They should have procedures and guidelines in place that KEEP this from happening. Maybe they need to re-examine the way their treatments are done. I don’t know, the answer to that. I do know though, from personal experience, at the time of pregnancy, emotions are high, hormones are completely out of whack for both parents and the thought of asking a woman to terminate a child after all that hell that’s been placed on her body is not something that should be done. Instead, Why don’t we put this WHOLE thing back on the shoulders of science? They created this monster…..so they need to learn how to control it. If they can’t, then in the meantime, there needs to be some better guidelines put in place, nationwide, that will keep familes such as the Morrison’s and the Sodani’s from having to go through this heartache and will keep families like the Masche’s and the Byer’s at a minimum.

No, I am not angry at all at the families, I think it is wonderful that science could help them. The only ones who should have to hang their heads in shame is their clinics and doctors who created this mess. They should have the means and resouces in place to help these families clean this mess up. I mean, they are the ones who let the monster loose after all.

When my husband and I started trying to conceive and then started treatment, we made the decision that anything above two would be selectively reduced down to two. We made decisions about congential abnormalities and diseases and which we could terminate for. We decided that if any child was born before 25 weeks, we wouldn’t want any life saving measures taken. We made all these decisions before or right as we were starting treatment, and most of the families I know did the same. Most families have decided before they have started where their end point is.

I guess my problem is that whenever a horribly tragic event like this happens, people want to jump on the entire community and on every family (btw, why do so many posters only talk about the women receiving treatment and not their partners?). Families like these two, and the doctors that treatment them, are not common. The responsible ones are the rule. If people were to take a closer look at these cases, some things seem suspicious to me, and the fact that the Morrison’s were offered treatment as such an early age after only one year of trying and then bypassed much of the medical protocol is disheartening to me.

I happen to think that these two families and the other two families expecting sextuplets this year are irresponsible and selfish. However, I also know the feeling of wanting a child (at the ripe old age of 27) and not being able to easily conceive one. I couldn’t afford adoption, I didn’t have tens of thousands of dollars at my disposal. It would have been my choice instead of fertility treatment, but my insurance covered my treatment, which amounted to 3 rounds of Clomid at the lowest dosage.

The fertility field is laregly unregulated because in most cases, it’s a cash business. For families that have insurance that covers such treatment, you will find very restrained and carefully monitored treatment. People won’t agree that such treatment should be covered by insurance (mine was covered because of a specific medical diagnosis), but if it were, you can bet that the field would be regulated overnight.

Anyway, again, thanks for being willing to have a conversation about this.

EHeavenlyGads: Jen, it is comments like yours that have made this blog both enlightening and a pleasure for me. Your comments are well taken and very much appreciated. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on ALL points made. Kindest regards.

Bleeechh..get a life that does not include so much EMOTING, Katie. LOGIC and reason will carry you MUCH, MUCH farther.

Keep the heat on, girl. These women need a reality pill, not a fertility shot.

Clomid 30 years ago resulted in twins and triplets fairly often. It was a new drug, with very little long term information known. Today, the twin rate for Clomid is 5%, anything else is virtually unheard of. As a woman 10 weeks pregnant with my first, a clomid baby, I know many women in the same boat as I who have used clomid and only ONE has had twins. All others were healthy singletons.

Follistim is another demon altogether, and 30% of births are multiple births.

And as someone who has received treatment, I can tell you that these women and their doctors are the exception, not the responsible ones. The majority of RE’s do very close monitoring and cancel cycles when it appears multiples are a risk, they talk to their patients beforehand about selective reduction. And as for the patients, most are not as naive and irresponsible as these families. Most are well educated about their treatments, look at all their options, and make the most mature and responsible decision. So, please, do all us infertiles/subfertiles a favor, and don’t assume we’re all clammering to have a little of children at any cost.

And Linda? You’re probably gone by now, but what a great post. Too many people think the easy answer to infertility is adoption, when it comes with as much stress, emotion, and hard work as having a child biologically.

EHeavenlyGads: Jen, I thank you for your comments. And I am certainly happy to learn of your own success. For the record, I do not assume ALL “infertiles/subfertiles” are “all clammering to have a litter of children at any cost.” Far from it. But you, yourself, hit the nail on its head in stating that most fertility patients “are not as naive and irresponsible as these families.” That is precisely my point. I agree with your statistics regarding Clomid and Follistim, but would add that Clomid frequently fails and Follistim is almost always the secondary medication employed in concert with changed therapy techniques. It is this which causes the dilema of high order births. Clomid and even Follistim can be true miracle drugs, as you have experienced. But the increasing number of large order conceptions are almost always guaranteed to be disasters in low birth weight babies. Some patients — not all, thank God — are incapable of making hard decisions to protect the viability of some of their fetuses and some doctors allow them to do so. I believe the Morrisons know this heartbreaking reality better than most today.

EHeavenlyGads: “Private pages of families” addressing an unknown public with myriad details and seeking monetary donations? Are those the “private pages” to which you refer? Wake up, Katie, and smell reality. EXCEPT by a miracle from God, there is no such thing as a “positive experience” for a gestation so large that it is doomed to produce extremely low birthweight infants. (Hope you feel better now after the personal attack, notably not one against the facts involved…)

First, follicle monitoring is hardly an exact science. It’s possible for even experienced sonographers to undercount follicles via ultrasound, especially in women with PCOS whose ovaries are cystic in appearance. It’s also impossible to know how fast supposedly-immature follicles will develop after taking the HCG trigger shot. In fact, one of the sextuplet mothers was told she had only two mature follicles, so she most likely triggered thinking she had no chance of high-order multiples.

Any woman who does an IUI cycle is at *some* risk of high-order multiples, even with the closest ultrasound monitoring possible and cancellation for multiple follicles. Those of you who did IUI should think carefully about that before criticizing the sextuplet mothers and their doctors.

However, the flip side of that is that the risk of conceiving high-order multiples are very very small, even with a lot of follicles present. I actually ran the numbers (details on my blog), and even with six mature follicles, the odds of conceiving quads or higher are less than 1%. The odds of sextuplets are about 1 in 100,000 — much, much lower than a singleton mother’s risk of dying in childbirth, or of the baby’s death. The sextuplet mothers took a risk, yes, but it was a very tiny one.

As background, I have 36-week twins born after a Repronex/IUI cycle, in which I came down with OHSS. I had 4 to 6 mature follicles, and triggered after discussing the possibility of high-order multiples with my husband and my doctor. So it’s not just theoretical for me.

EHeavenlyGads: Ellen, I thank you for your underscoring the Follistim injections that I outlined in the fourth paragraph of my post. The drug, as you said, is second tier and used at failure of Clomid. More than anything, I am so pleased to hear your own outcome of healthy twins and also from having undergone care at another highly professional and responsible fertility clinic. Your story speaks loudly as to what good is being done in the realm of infertility measures.

Twins a lot of work? EGADS! My hat is off to you — I’m well acquainted with several pairs! And I send you my very best wishes for a lifetime of joy ahead with your wonderful family.

EHeavenlyGads: Stine, I appreciate your comments and allow me to say “Amen” to your every word. You hit the nail on the head regarding the necessity of daily ultrasounds and I’m glad to know your own experience was with highly professional fertility specialists. I’ve no doubt you were an exceptional patient, as well.

Your experience is all about what is good in infertility therapy and how it should be practiced. Bless you and your precious family in happiness all the days ahead. Thank you for commenting.